Tuesday, January 7, 2014

Craving Discipline, part three: The Erotic Appeal

This is the third part of a series of posts on "Craving Discipline," an attempt at delving a bit deeper into our need for discipline, the issues that come up, and why we aren't alone in dealing with them. This is PART ONE and this is PART TWO

Today I'd like to take a look at what, to me, was a surprising issue that surfaced when first I began down this journey Domestic Discipline took us on. Jason and I began with erotic spanking. I assumed everyone did. The concept of being disciplined by my husband, at the time, was repulsive to me. Occasionally I'd come across a story or a blog post that explained real discipline. And I was drawn to it. But I pushed down my instinctual responses with thoughts like This is wrong and No man has the right to discipline his wife like a child. I forced my brain to shut off any erotic associations with discipline, because surely I was the only one on the planet who found that somehow sexy. 

Well, I've changed my mind, you might say. The day my husband looked at me and said, "Do that again and you'll get a real spanking," the same feelings I'd had before -- you know, heart pounding, cheeks flushed, labored breathing -- surfaced. I pushed them down again. But this only lasted for a few seconds. 

When I challenged him -- shock and curiosity intermingling with my wide-eyed "You wouldn't!" -- he crossed the room, belt in hand, and overpowered me. With one fluid motion, he bent me over the bed, said something like, "You think I'm kidding?" and landed a few stinging swats. 

My heart was stuttering so badly I could hardly see or hear. And all day long...the thought of being bent over his knee was all I could think of. I'd had plenty of amazing sexy spankings...but they were all foreplay. 

All I could envision was my man...the stern look on his face. 

Do it again, and you'll get a real spanking. 

The grip of his hand on my wrist, as he bent me over the bed...

The feel of the belt landing with serious sting. 

And as I mulled over my feelings...my draw to his discipline...my mind that told me No, this isn't right...I found the erotic appeal of real discipline undeniable.



Now some may find this an obvious point. "Of course it's erotic." But I think it's worthy of discussion. 


Not everyone believes being taken in hand is deeply erotic. There are a select few who find it not sexy at all, or they say they do anyway. I have a hard time imagining that, personally, but I respect that others feel differently than I do. 

However, there are many people who deny it, and do themselves a disservice by doing so. And that's why I think this issue needs to be out in the open, where we can discuss it. 

I was asked fairy recently why we do what we do. And my explanation, though fairly lengthy, boils down to two basic reasons. First, it's a form of conflict resolution. We have peace and harmony in our relationship because of Domestic Discipline. Second, it's deeply erotic. Honestly, to us, Dominance and Submission would be stripped of all it's appeal without the erotic undertones. 

There are many, many reasons why we the act of being spanked is sexy. There is a complete loss of control. There is absolute trust. The act itself can be physically arousing. Instinctively, our primal attraction to strength and being overpowered comes into play. 




But the reason for my post today is not to get into reasons why dominance and submission is erotic. My reason in writing today is because I've been around the DD community for a while now, and I see so much confusion with this topic. There are even prominent members of the community that say "if you are attracted sexually to spanking, you shouldn't partake in DD." And that's why I'm writing this post. Because that is absolute hogwash. 

There are some people who begin this dynamic who are confused about this. 

If I find it arousing to spank her, how can I discipline her? 

If he spanks me and I'm attracted to it, how can I still be motivated to behave? 

How is it going to help her behave if she's attracted to spanking?

He finds it sexy. I don't know if we can do this.

There is a widespread concern in the community that the erotic appeal somehow detracts from the authenticity of Domestic Discipline. No, dear readers. It doesn't at all detract from it. It's at the absolute heart of it all. It doesn't make it a game. It's what makes it work. Frankly, it's one of the very many reasons a Taken in hand relationship differs from a parent-child relationship (though that's the topic of another post) and why it's ridiculous to claim it is childish. 

When an Hoh takes his wife over his knee, very often she's bared to him. It is natural, and normal, to find that sexy. People ask me all the time, "Is your husband turned on when he spanks you?" Of course he is because it's sexy


But the reason a Domestic Discipline dynamic still works, even though it is sexy, is because the erotic appeal is only part of what happens. If it ended there -- and it merely aroused both parties -- it would be erotic spanking, and no more. But much more takes place. 

When a punishment spanking is administered, there is acknowledgement that wrongdoing has happened, and that's hard to accept. It takes honesty and integrity to admit to wrongdoing. When a punishment spanking is administered, there is disappointment. But so much more begins to happen. Conflict is resolved. There are no more hard feelings, no more guilt, no more anger. Conflict is put to rest. The pain of the spanking is what lingers, and motivates the Taken in Hand to behave. The trust given the Head of Household, and the treasuring of that trust, brings about intimacy. Now add the erotic overtones of spanking into the mix, and you have intimacy like no other. 

Peace. Trust. Resolution. 

Intimacy. 

There is nothing I find sexier than my husband putting me over his knee. The mere words, "Do I need to put you over my knee, young lady?" make my heart begin to beat faster. His hand on my wrist makes the heat rise. The first smack of his hand on my bottom spikes my pulse. The knowledge that he is strong, and stern, and will administer a proper spanking if necessary, brings about feelings of being girly, and feminine, and shy. But the knowledge that I will be punished if I misbehave still very much has the desired effect. 

I'd love to hear from you, readers. What do you feel about the erotic appeal of discipline and spanking? How has it affected your DD dynamic? What advice might you give to someone struggling with this? 

For those following this series, I urge you to read in the comment section below each post. The dialogue and contributions readers have made leave excellent points to ponder and food for thought. 


26 comments:

  1. Hello Jason Girl,
    I love the way you put the erotic appeal of spanking, it is fantastic and I can only agree with what you have written. I also loved that you mentioned those who deny that they feel attracted to submitting/to be TIH, because that’s something that I had observed as well and also think it is emotionally extremely unhealthy. The reasons that you referred to, why you do DD are the ones that I also think are most important and I also had this problem in the past, that those who asked did not understand it and thought that we were just plain weird. The prejudice that too many people have is, that DD is a kind of abuse, whereas I always emphasize that it is the opposite, it creates a stronger and more intimate kind of being together. I also loved how you described this misconception many people have and can only agree with you, that the pleasure that you can get from spanking is definitely completely different from the punishment spanking, and yes, it works well.
    As to this combination of erotic appeal and discipline, yes, it is definitely there. Not while the punishment spanking is commencing, but before, in dialogue with your HoH, afterwards as well. Later on when I think back, I always have this mix, punishment hurts, but it also has something sexy to it, yes, for sure.
    Peace. Trust. Resolution. Intimacy. I love the way you described this, just like I loved the whole series of Craving Discipline, thank you so much for it, you really spoke from the heart with it.
    I don’t know if this qualifies as advice, but I would always tell my friends that they should look whether they trusted their (dominant) partner enough to give discipline a serious try. Out of my own very positive experience I would recommend DD wholeheartedly, but I also know that not everybody wants to do ttwd. But if you have this need inside, do all you can to follow your heart in that. I have messed up a lot in the past, but with hubby’s help I found this answer to a lot of things.

    Hugs

    nina

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    1. Nina, thank you so much for your reply.

      "The prejudice that so many have is that DD is abuse, whereas I always emphasize that it is the opposite."

      How true!

      I also completely agree with you that following your heart with what you need is so very important. And yes, although this dynamic isn't for everyone, so many of us have positive experiences, it is worth exploring.

      I also agree that during the actual discipline, there is no arousal, yet the build up and memory of having been taken in hand is deeply erotic.

      Thanks for your contribution!

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    2. Well, here I think Jason Girl is going into a contradiction in terms and still trying to defend it. To me the punishment logic and the fun logic are perfect opposition. Sex is fun, pleasure, arousal, excitement, a spin in your head, butterflies in your stomach, blush on cheeks, your heart beating fast. All of that, that’s what comes with sex. You really want that spanking for all that.

      And you should not, if it is to be a punishment. I can’t imagine a spanked child who wants to get a spanking ever again (unless he or she gets excited by it from a certain age and that’s a different story beginning). A real punishment spanking should be a definite deterrent, and in case of the wanted spankings it is simply not. The “real” character of the spanking only adds to the fun, exactly because of this authenticity, it no longer seems just a play, it’s real. No, really, it’s still just a play, only with a more realistic falavour. And really it does not work as a punishment. Even if one or several spankings uproot one misdeed or one misbehavior, someone who really enjoys spankings will find another one and do something else, just to get that spanking. Can you imagine a life without spankings? How boring.

      (I mean, I would never ever spank my girlfriend for something like a speeding ticket. If she finds that very real and serious spanking any bit exciting, I might really endanger her life. Not something I would ever forgive myself.)

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    3. Although I understand your point, I don't agree with you at all, and it doesn't jive with either my three years' experience as a submissive or my observation of hundreds of D/s relationships. A submissive who is a masochist will likely not be deterred by a punishment spanking, but many of us aren't masochists. We are not attracted to the pain, and that's a very important distinction. We are attracted to the authority, the loss of control, his power over us, so we very much desire his dominance, but we really want to please him. I hate being punished and avoid punishment spankings; What I love is knowing he *will* spank me because he expects my obedience.

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    4. J Girl. I couldn't agree more with your comment. I think very few people in D/s and domestic discipline relationships are true masochists. There is an attraction to the loss of control and power over us, precisely because many of us who crave being subject to someone else's authority precisely because we have some "control freak" tendencies, and having to obey someone else helps us smooth out those extremes and gives us a sense of release. Being open to all that is not at all the same thing as the spanking not being a punishment. In fact, the only reason that it meets our other emotional needs is because it DOES function as a real punishment. Mobby is mixing up a whole bunch of concepts here and importing a lot of BDSM precepts into a very different kind of relationship.

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    5. To my mind, this is another of those areas in which people, based on their own experiences, often seem unable to respect that someone else's experience can be different from theirs and yet still be perfectly real, valid and effective within the unique parameters of that particular relationship.


      I personally don't think there are any 'official' rules governing whether eroticism can enter in some shape of form into the realms of discipline in an adult relationship or whether it must be treated as entirely separate entity in order for discipline to be real. I do know, however, that the relationship between a parent and a child bears no emotional or physical similarity to an intimate relationship between two consenting adults who are emotionally and physically attracted to one another and therefore that the one cannot realistically be compared with or used as a “benchmark” for the other since entirely different psychological aspects are at play. In short, how something works in a parent/child relationship has zero to do with how the same thing might work between two adults living in a marriage.


      While logically it may all seem simple and clear cut in terms of discipline – bad, eroticism – good and therefore ne'er the twain shall meet, or discipline “can't” be genuine, in real life adult relationships aren't that cut and dried and not every individual feels and reacts in the exact same way to every situation. So if someone tells me that for them there's an element of eroticism, (and from talking to people, the nature of that eroticism and when, how and why it occurs can vary enormously) but discipline still does its work effectively as a deterrent, I see no reason to disbelieve them. By the same token, if someone like Mobby tells me that, for him or her, there is no eroticism and discipline cannot work if there is, I can respect that, *for them*, this is the absolute truth. What I can't accept however, is that either 'side' can look into the lives and minds of the other and decide what works or does not work for other people, even when they are told differently by the individuals actually involved.


      I admit that I do look at *some* relationships where similar discipline for the same offence(s) (and sometimes those offences seem to be issues that should have more to do with simple common sense, and the consideration involved in acting in a way that is safe and healthy for oneself and other people) goes on ad infinitum for weeks, months and even years and seems to make no difference whatsoever and wonder if, even though it seems to work for the couple concerned, the basis of the 'discipline' isn't 'discipline' at all, but a desire for attention, an erotic attraction to spanking, or physical domination in the form of spanking. This to me is also rather different from a Dominant/submissive interaction in that the repetition of the offence is effectively a form of defiance/rebellion which lacks the most basic characteristics of submission. While these relationships might make people happy and fulfilled in their own way, for me they differ intrinsically from D/D and D/s relationships.


      On the other hand, if the same offence is repeated a number of times at the beginning of a DD relationship and at first discipline isn't all that effective, or if someone makes a bad judgement, or mistake, has a bad habit which takes a while to break, or slips back into their old ways in a moment of heat or emotion, I don't see that as being 'unreal' in terms of effective discipline, but just as being human nature.

      At the end of the day, it would be wonderful, simple and straightforward if everything conformed precisely to the same rules and regulations of behaviour and reaction, but where in the world does that ever happen in real life?



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  2. This was a wonderful post, I do not want to be punished because I do not want to have let my husband down by not doing what I said I would/wouldn't do, but I do find it very erotic knowing that he will punish me if it is needed. We have had many of the concerns that you discribed, I have done a ton of research/reading over the past two years trying to come to terms with how I felt and trying to figure out if there was something wrong with me for feeling this way. I am so thankful to have found your blog because you have helped me to finally believe that there is nothing wrong with me. My husband is the only man I was ever able to admit my desire for spanking to & for 11 of the 13 years we have been together it was only done as fore play. I am not turned on by a punishment spanking but I am very much turned on by his dominance and by the loss of control. It's over when HE decides it's over, when HE decides I have had enough and not a moment before and that is very sexy to both of us. It took me a very long & reading some very popular (and controversial) books before I was able to begin to admit to my true desire for discipline. I believed for such a long time that how I dealt was wrong & that their was something wrong with me that I am still having to remind myself that I am okay, but I know in time that will no longer be needed.
    Again, great post & thank you so much for helping me to realize that what I desire is anything but wrong!
    Scarlet ; )

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    1. Hello, Scarlet! I'm so glad my blog has helped you have confidence in your decisions and have peace with what it is you need and want. It can be a lonely, confusing journey in the beginning.

      "It's over when HE decides it's over, when HE decides I have had enough and not a moment before and that is very sexy to both of us."

      Bingo!

      So nice to see you. Thanks for stopping by!

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  3. Hi Jason girl. I love this post. You write so clearly. I agree with how you feel. I have never had the conflict that some women seem to have. I just accept that that is how I am. Together we practice some form of ttwd, lots of play, some punishment. I love how these men of ours can press our buttons just by what they say and how they say it, let alone when they are spanking us!
    Lovely post,
    love Jan.xx

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    1. Jan, I love it, too! Just a touch of his hand or a certain look makes me melt. We are lucky girls!

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  4. I definitely feel there is an erotic nature to all of it. I like knowing he will spank me and his authority is a turn on for me. When he spanks me, it turns him on no matter why he is spanking. When I am punished though, I don't feel aroused during the punishment, I feel horrible because I have let him down, but after it is over, I always want to be intimate with him so I can feel connected.

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    1. Sara, I can relate completely. I think men are largely physical and women are more so emotional. So this is why the idea of being disciplined, the lead up to discipline, and the memory of it is all erotic to us, but it's difficult (near impossible) to be aroused during an actual punishment spanking; but a man is typically aroused no matter what the reason.

      I think you highlighted a great point as well -- it's not necessarily that discipline is arousing, but that deep connection we desire after that often leads to other forms of intimacy.

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  5. Jason Girl,
    I love this post........ you have nailed my feeling in all three parts. Thank you.
    Meredith

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    1. Thank you, Meredith! And thanks, as always, for stopping by!

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  6. I totally agree that for me, for us anyway, this very mixture is why DD works. I honestly have no idea why some people think that it's somehow bad or wrong for there to be an erotic element to it. The fact that there is doesn't make it any less effective and it certainly doesn't turn it into a game. Any form of DD can be just a game if the participants hearts and intentions are misplaced. I think some struggle because they try to repress the erotic side of this dynamic and that makes me sad for them. Now mind you, I imagine there might be some for whom spanking just isn't erotic. Personally, I have a hard time imagining that. I mean, my body responds in a way that it is undeniable. Even if I'm in a head space where I don't want a spanking my body is going to respond to the spanking. Now, I'll have to go look for the other posts in this series. :)

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    1. "Any form of DD can be just a game if the participants hearts and intentions are misplaced."

      I completely agree with this point.

      I, too, feel sad for those who allow their struggle with the erotic nature of discipline detract from the authenticity of their relationship, and that's why I wrote this post.

      Nice to see you! Thanks for stopping in.

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  7. This is a great post as always. Bottom line, I can't imagine doing DD without the erotic appeal. For starters, I wouldn't have found out about it had I not been googling =). In reality, I would never have been able to get past the hurt had I not seen the other side of spanking.

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    1. Leah, thank you! And what you said is me to a "T." I couldn't consent to this if there wasn't an erotic appeal...it would be too hard for me to reconcile.

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  8. What an outstanding post. You have spoken to all three areas very well. Underneath it all, there obviously is an erotic side. Depending on the situation the spanking is occuring , sets the tone and the message. Speaking for myself, I am very clear when I receive a punishment spanking vs a good girl or for pleasure. No matter what the reason, it is knowing that my man has me is the turn on.

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    1. Catherine, thanks so much for your kind words and support.

      "No matter what the reason, it is knowing that my man has me is the turn on."

      You nailed it!

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  9. About a year ago I read an answer to a letter from an 'experienced' HOH to a newer one. In it he said in HIS theory " your wife has an interest in spanking otherwise wouldn't have brought this to you". I think if many of us, looking back are willing to admit, his statement is valid. Perhaps at the time many didn't realize it.
    The difficulty I have is in admitting it. Not necessarily to my husband, as over time and through punishment spankings he has changed his outlook- before he liked r/a because of the physical response it provided me and thus him, now punishment because of all the dominance and submissiveness that comes with it, but to others.
    I think many ( okay this is going to be a broad statement and I hope I don't offend) 'pretend' they don't like it out here in print because that is what we are 'supposed' to do. Problem being that snowballs. One says it so others follow suit, yet not many feel it in their heart.
    I hope your post and future ones and comments like it will help change that.
    willie

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    1. Hi, Willie,
      I, too, hope others aren't offended by what I wrote here, but I think what you and I have said here needs to be said. The bottom line is, it's pretty unlikely a woman is going to go out and buy or make implements, read blogs, or feel let-down when a punishment spanking is overlooked, if she doesn't have some draw to discipline. There is an excitement factor that does no one any good to deny.

      Thanks for your contribution!

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  10. I was just mulling the idea of dominance vs discipline and the erotic effect it has on me. I think I struggle because so many DO say DD isn't erotic. thank you for being so bold and honest as to set the record straight. for some of us discipline is still very much erotic and sexy.

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    1. Thank you, Coral. The widespread concern over the erotic appeal has confused so many. I'm glad we can discuss this out in the open. And thanks for stopping by!

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  12. JG, Never signed in to an account so I apologise if you've received multiple replies.

    I agree, many people are in denial about the sexual attraction of punishment spanking. Though, I also believe there are a number of people who use dd for religious reasons, to improve their marriages or simply to please their spouses.

    I'm reminded of my mil, who was a dear woman but soooo sexually repressed. She used to read trashy romance novels but insist she skipped over any sexual scenes. LOL Right, she must have been reading them for the great story line and beautiful writing.

    It's sad people are so repressed and in denial instead of embracing and being able to truly enjoy their sexuality.

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